Night Owls

Punchcard · Punchcard, as of 30 Dec 2001 at 22:36 GMT

People are far too clever to let a few rounded-up prices or conversion tables get the better of them. Shoppers know the value of a loaf of bread, and competition keeps shopkeepers honest soon enough. A bit of initial grumbling at the counter is to be expected, but trade finds its footing very quickly.

kookaburra99 · kookaburra99, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 00:11 GMT

exactly! everyday shoppers aren't silly, people know when prices feel off and shops still want customers to walk in. it might take an extra couple of seconds to count out the coins at first, but everyone will get the hang of it in no time.

Sysop_Kev · Sysop_Kev, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 00:28 GMT

Punchcard wrote:

People are far too clever to let a few rounded-up prices or conversion tables get the better of them.

Dead right. Shoppers aren't daft, they spot a cheeky mark-up in seconds. A shopkeeper trying to double the cost of a paper under cover of math will just watch folks walk across the road to someone honest.

Sure, the queues will be brutal for three or four days while people empty their coin jars, but trade doesn't grind to a halt just because someone has to do sums in their head.

Quick board note: running a routine database backup around 2:00 am tonight, so expect a few minutes of downtime if you're still awake.

-- Kev (mod)

TheyKnow · TheyKnow, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 03:47 GMT

Walking across the street only works if the other fellow has any cash in his till to make change with, folks... The main French bank unions just confirmed they are walking out on strike this Wednesday right when the doors unlock, so people might not even have a choice of where to go. It is not just about keeping a shopkeeper honest over a newspaper. When the banks are shut down and cash machines run dry, local commerce gets squeezed whether people are clever or not. We will see how smooth it really looks once the weekend parties finish up and everyday business has to open up for real.

kookaburra99 · kookaburra99, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 04:14 GMT

TheyKnow wrote:

When the banks are shut down and cash machines run dry, local commerce gets squeezed whether people are clever or not.

sorry if this is a dumb question, but can't people just keep using their old francs for a bit if the machines run out?? the minister said they're still good till february anyway! it'll probably just mean some long queues while staff count fiddly change, but folks will manage fine

TheyKnow · TheyKnow, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 04:17 GMT

Not a dumb question at all, kookaburra... but the rub is where the change comes from. The shops are supposed to take in old francs and give back only euros, so they drain their euro floats fast. If the bank branch down the street is shuttered and the ATM is empty, the till runs dry of new money by noon. Then a clerk either breaks the rules and hands back old francs - defeating the whole exercise - or turns paying customers away. It is not just about standing patiently in line, folks, it is about having the actual tender in hand to finish the deal.

kookaburra99 · kookaburra99, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 05:45 GMT

Shops will just hand back old francs if they run out of euros, nobody gets turned away over change.

OffByOne · OffByOne, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 07:04 GMT

kookaburra99 wrote:

Shops will just hand back old francs if they run out of euros, nobody gets turned away over change.

Giving change in the legacy currency is precisely what the dual-circulation guidelines permit when euro coin reserves run low. Retailers are asked to provide change in euros wherever feasible to speed the transition, but no shopkeeper is required to abandon a sale merely because their euro drawer is temporarily depleted. In France, the franc remains legal tender until 17 February, which gives merchants ample legal leeway to handle ordinary transactions during any temporary delivery bottleneck.

Furthermore, the industrial dispute in France concerns branch counters, whereas automated teller networks operate independently of bank teller hours. The cash machines have already been preloaded, and automated replenishment does not depend on counter clerks being at their desks on Wednesday morning. Here in Rotterdam, the banks have taken sensible precautions with their equipment, and businesses have had ample advance delivery of coin rolls to manage their floats. A union dispute across the border will not arrest the physical machinery of retail commerce.

quasistatic · quasistatic, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 08:41 GMT

OffByOne has the right of it. The dual-circulation rules were drafted precisely so that commerce would not seize up if a cash float runs short. A shopkeeper handing back francs when euro coins are temporarily unavailable is working entirely within the planned fallback framework, not breaking any rules.

We saw similar apocalyptic predictions about automated cash dispensers and branch closures two years ago, and sensible administrative contingency saw us through without incident. Cash machines operate on automated schedules, and retail trade does not simply stop because a transaction requires an extra moment of mental arithmetic at the till.

OffByOne · OffByOne, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 08:43 GMT

quasistatic wrote:

We saw similar apocalyptic predictions about automated cash dispensers and branch closures two years ago, and sensible administrative contingency saw us through without incident.

The comparison to two years ago is very fitting. Operational planning always incorporates margins for human delay and machine cycling. Tonight I shall simply walk to the pinautomaat on the corner after midnight to collect my first euro banknotes, and tomorrow normal retail trade will continue without catastrophe.

PintOfMild · PintOfMild, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 11:07 GMT

Too right, nobody turns down good money! A few days of long queues while folks empty their pockets and cashiers count fiddly coppers, then everyone just gets used to it. Plenty of time to sort the floats out. Mind you, anyone fancy braving the queues for a pint in Leeds next Thursday? Cheers

quasistatic · quasistatic, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 11:47 GMT

Count me in for that pint, PintOfMild; I shall see you in Leeds next Thursday.

Punchcard · Punchcard, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 16:28 GMT

Quite right. No sensible shopkeeper ever sent a paying customer away because of what lay inside the cash drawer.

With nearly half the notes already distributed and so many people holding those coin packs, the shops will have plenty of grease in the wheels. Even if a till runs short on Wednesday morning, handing back the old coins is simply using the safety valve the authorities built into the rules.

There will certainly be some slow queues and fiddly counting for the first few days, but trade keeps moving. People will buy their morning paper, grumble about the odd pocketful of small change, and get on with their lives.

PintOfMild · PintOfMild, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 19:02 GMT

Spot on, Punchcard. People will just want their paper and milk, and no shopkeeper is turning away business over a bit of mixed coinage! Even with the strikes in France and Italy, cash machines do the heavy lifting anyway. It will all blow over by the weekend.

TheyKnow · TheyKnow, as of 31 Dec 2001 at 19:30 GMT

Paper plans look real neat on a government desk, Punchcard, but real life has a funny habit of not following the brochure... When four out of ten small shops have not even stocked up with a single euro yet, having half the official notes sitting in central bank vaults does not help the fellow trying to buy milk. And now the central bank workers in Italy are walking out on strike Wednesday too, right along with the French unions! That is what they WANT you to look past when they promise the machines will just magically do all the work. If the armored vans sit idle and the staff walk out, those automated tellers do not fill themselves, folks.